The sleeping giant has spoken

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rdonnay
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The sleeping giant has spoken

#1 Post by rdonnay »

Today, the head of the NRA announced that to solve our gun violence problems we need to have more 2nd amendment rights and less 1st amendment rights. He proposed that more guns, not less guns, are the solution to the problem. He proposed that armed guards be placed in all schools and that restrictions be put on Hollywood and video game makers.

This is the kind of America he wants.
God bless him, say his followers.
“From whence shall we expect the approach of danger? Shall some trans-Atlantic military giant step the earth and crush us at a blow? Never. All the armies of Europe and Asia...could not by force take a drink from the Ohio River or make a track on the Blue Ridge in the trial of a thousand years. No, if destruction be our lot we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of free men we will live forever or die by suicide.”
Abraham Lincoln.
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GeneB
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Re: The sleeping giant has spoken

#2 Post by GeneB »

Wow, I never knew that Lincoln had predicted Barack Obama.

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rdonnay
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Re: The sleeping giant has spoken

#3 Post by rdonnay »

The hatred of Barack Obama is very much like the hatred of Abraham Lincoln during his time.
Your comments certainly bear that out. Lincoln was hated like no other president and now it's Obama's turn. But such hate does not stop progress. Things must change for the good of society as they always have in world history. Kings, dictators and totalitarian regimes are being replaced by democracies. Slavery has been abolished in the world.

Gun sanity is next. Maybe not in my lifetime, but eventually.

This country has been awakened even while the sleeping giant talks in his sleep.

Now, I will make some predictions.
The NRA will be weakened by their leaders' reckless and absurd comments.

The families of the murdered children will be at Barack Obama's state of the union address next month.

There will be another march on Washington - and I will be there when it happens.

The radical right-wing's hatred of Barack Obama will nearly destroy the Republican Party. They will lose many congressmen in future elections.
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RDalzell
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Re: The sleeping giant has spoken

#4 Post by RDalzell »

Lets Get It Right
Well by now I'm sure all of you are aware of the tragic school shooting in Connecticut. Its terrible. 27 lives lost. Why?
Because of military "assault style weapons" ?
Because of high capacity magazines ?
Because guns are too easily obtained ?
Because we live in a "gun culture" ?
No.
None of those reasons. 27 lives were lost because we as a population failed to recognize mental illness. We failed to recognize that some young man needed help. Help that he wasn't able to ask for. We failed to recognize his silent cries for help and we failed to help him deal with the terrible silent disease of mental illness. The disease won and we all lost.
We lost our sense of safety for our children in school. We lost our ability to reason. And many of us scream for stricter gun laws. We lost our ability to think a situation through. We are all busy "re-acting" and are not acting with our ability to reason.
Guns are tools. They are neither safe nor dangerous. They are simply tools and become safe when we promote and participate in firearms education and training. They are unsafe in the hands of the untrained, the uneducated, in the hands of criminals and in the hands of the mentally ill. Guns are life saving devices... thats why we give them to cops. If they were inherently dangerous we wouldn't want the cops to have them either.

More people are killed in car accidents than were ever killed in gun battles and we don't try to outlaw cars.
People who drink and drive are arrested for DUI but we don't blame the car!
We don't blame the alcohol. We blame the driver. He (or she) made a choice. They drank and they drove. And many of those drunk drivers have killed or seriously injured many thousands of innocent motorists.
Did we outlaw their military looking vehicles? No.
Did we outlaw high capacity vehicles? No.
Did we blame the fact that cars are too easily obtained? No.
Did we blame these injuries and deaths on the fact that we live in a car culture? No.
What we did do was prosecute the offender and provide alcohol and/or drug abuse treatment. We reached out to these people and offered them a helping hand to receive the counseling and education necessary so they could make better choices and decisions in the future.
We don't blame pens for writing bad checks and we don't blame the department stores merchandise for retail thefts.
Lets get it right. Lets focus on the real problem. Lets help those that cannot ask for the help they need. Lets get the education we need to recognize those with mental illness. Lets reach out to them and get them the mental health services that they need. They'll be better and we'll all be safer.

Ignore the politicians who blur the focus of the real problem and try to promote their own political agenda with scare tactics and fear.
Yes, I mean you, Rahm. And yes, you too Mr. Quinn, Mr. Bloomberg, Ms. Pelosi and Mr. Obama.

Writen By Jerry Novak

The loss of any life is terrible and especially when involving innocents such as children.
For the past 36 years I have carried a firearm in defense of my community and country.
I have been witness and directly involved with events that people should not have to see nor certainly experience.
I wish I had a solution, I can only continue to try to make a difference each and every day.
Hoping that many others will continue to Pay it Forward so we can all live in a better world.

Rick

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Re: The sleeping giant has spoken

#5 Post by bwolfsohn »

Yes, Mental illness is an issue.. But, the rest are contributing issues..

Because of military "assault style weapons" ?

If a ban is enacted on military "assault style weapons", will we be better off as a nation and community ?
Yes..

Because of high capacity magazines ?
If a ban is enacted on high capacity magazines will we be better off as a nation and community ?
Yes..

Because guns are too easily obtained ?
If the gun show purchase (and similar private sale) loopholes are closed, will we be better off as a nation and community ?
yes..

Because we live in a "gun culture" ?
Some parts of our nations's gun culture contribute to the nation and community.. (see: hunting, sportmen stuff, etc).. others do not (see: gang shootings, etc).. so, a gun culture in not the problem..
The glorification of the gun culture on the other hand just might be a problem..

no one thing will solve this problem.. but all of the above, will HELP the problem..

plus this week's removal of ted (bat-shit crazy) nugent from the discovery channel airwaves will also help..

Brian
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OOPS.. Corona Virus, so NOT traveling right now...
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GeneB
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Re: The sleeping giant has spoken

#6 Post by GeneB »

1. This forum is not the place for this kind of discussion.
2. It is a huge leap of irrationality to say that because someone makes a comment about Barrack Obama that they 'hate' him and and Abraham Lincoln. My disagreement with Barrack Obama is because I believe he does not have the same respect for the Constitution that I have, and because of the 6 trillion in additional debt he has added that the youth and the unborn of this nation will face in their lives. It is unsustainable, and I am very alarmed that despite his promises he has not presented a plan to reduce spending to deal with that debt and the debt to come. If he hates firearms so much he shouldn't have sent 1000 of them to my relatives in Mexico so that women and children could be slaughtered with them through the "Fast and Furious" program. And just because someone is 'of color' doesn't mean they are above criticism and doesn't mean that if they are criticized that it is racist. That is absurd.
3. Firearms are not good or evil. They can be misused the same as any tool, as can a vehicle, or an ax, a knife, alcohol, or a pulpit. If citizens of this nation want them outlawed then they are free to propose a constitutional amendment and have it ratified by the states. Until that day, I will continue to use and enjoy my constitutional right.
4. For our country to succeed and prosper people should be able to express their beliefs in a rational and thoughtful way that harms no one and not feel threatened for doing so. There are too many trying to shout down dialogue in our country, and that is perhaps our biggest obstacle to solving our problems.
5. I should never have made a comment on this forum on any topic except software, now wish I hadn't, but I did. I didn't start it, and I offer no apologies for my position or politics, and could fully support them with facts if needed, but I won't, and won't participate in anything outside of the main purpose of this forum in the future.
6. Let's all lighten up.

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rdonnay
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Re: The sleeping giant has spoken

#7 Post by rdonnay »

Let's all lighten up.
I have one more statement to make and then I will be quiet.

This forum is the place for these discussions because this is one of the few forums that isn't dedicated to a particular ideology or political persuasion. Forums in which people get all of their information from a single source do not serve the greater good. This is the kind of debate that is needed more in this country, where we can be honest about our emotions and our fears, regardless of how we feel about a subject. This is a forum that serves a community of people around the world who have chosen to become friends because of a common interest - Xbase++, but who have very diverse world views and experiences.

Nothing has ever been censored or edited here and never will be.

Now for my final rant:

Your statement about Barack Obama touched a nerve. Every time I try to have a conversation it turns to Barack Obama. He has done nothing to limit gun rights in America. In fact, he signed legislation giving more rights to gun owners, not less.

I live in an area (Southwest Idaho) where nearly 90% of the people I know are paranoid about something. My family and most of my friends constantly rant about the government and especially about Barack Obama. I cannot have a conversation with anyone about anything in which they don't make a negative statement about Obama. I get bombarded with emails from my old shipmates and old friends that are vitriolic in their racial hatred. When I go on motorcycle rides there is no conversation we can have (other than about our Harleys), that won't lead to a comment that everything that is wrong in their lives or could go wrong in their lives is the fault of Barack Obama or the government.

Over the years, I learned to stop trying to communicate with people about politics, religion, or society because all it ever did was give them reason not to like me and to drive a wedge between us. This goes for my family and my friends too. I sat still and listened to the paranoia and hate without comment. For years, I beared this torment of vitriol. Since the last ship's reunion, I thought that maybe I should not go to any more of these and that I should resign as secretary and historian of the association because it was no longer fun anymore being around so many angry old white men.

A few days ago, I was at a dinner party in which I met an intelligent 13-year boy. We got into conversation about American history and the world wars, and then we played together with a toy helicopter that I brought to the party. He said that he was surprised that I am a veteran and said that I was different from any veteran he had ever seen or talked to. He said that they are always grumpy and angry about everything. These were his words, not mine.

This 13-year old is the future of our country. It is the one thing that gives me hope.

I have said what I needed to say about the gun issue and I have signed the appropriate petitions and send letters to my congressmen and the newspapers. I haven't feel so strongly about an issue since I came back from Vietnam in 1969 and I could not live with myself if I failed to voice my opinion in every forum.

Now I will lighten up and say no more so as to not offend my friends, family, shipmates, veterans, motorcyle enthusiasts, gun owners, women, Christians, conservatives, liberals, libertarians and customers.

Peace :angry-banghead:
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Re: The sleeping giant has spoken

#8 Post by bwolfsohn »

rdonnay wrote:
Let's all lighten up.
Now I will lighten up and say no more so as to not offend my friends, family, shipmates, veterans, motorcyle enthusiasts, gun owners, women, Christians, conservatives, liberals, libertarians and customers.

Peace :angry-banghead:
Roger,

your views could not possibly offend me, as we've always been pulling on the "right" (which is actually left) side of the same rope.. :clap: :clap: :clap:
Brian Wolfsohn
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OOPS.. Corona Virus, so NOT traveling right now...
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skiman
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Re: The sleeping giant has spoken

#9 Post by skiman »

Hi,

As European from Belgium I found this an interesting topic. I don't understand why I would ever carry a gun, unless I'm police officer or similar.

Besides that, also in our country according to a lot of people, everything that is going wrong is the fault of the government. I suppose this is logical in time of crisis. When the economy is going down, lot of people are searching for someone they could blame.

I do hope that 2013 brings better days in general.

For all of you, Merry Christmas and a happy New-Year.
Best regards,

Chris.
www.aboservice.be

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